How Not to Get a Job
By: jskills	Published: 08/09/2005
So most of you know Rob and I have day jobs (surprise surprise, Goofball doesn't actually pay for much other than its own server costs). And being in the field of software development, being pretty decent at it, and getting up there in years - I have somehow found my way into management. I still keep my hands busy doing "real" work for most of the day, but more and more of my time is sucked away by dealing with people that work for me. Hiring software developers is no easy task. Typically you can find a great many resumes of very promising looking candidates, but when they come in for an interview, you'll very often encounter a painfully shy introvert, who has difficulty putting more than one word answers together. Or you'll get the guy who won't stop talking, but cannot answer even half the questions on the written test of fundamental programming concepts. Then there's the other kind that seem just great in every aspect, so you hire them. Then they go off their medication six months after being hired and you're stuck with a guy who comes in two hours late every day looking like he combed his hair with a soup spoon and rambling about how he once salivated while staring at a cockroach. Sure, I've hired some really great people too, but it's been like finding the hidden image in one of those “magic eye” pictures. This week, I had a bizarre email exchange with a young man who emailed me that he was interested in a position. I reviewed his resume and asked if he could come in this week to meet with me and a few other key people here on the team. The exchange went like this: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skills, Jay" To: "Johnson, Tom" Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:43 PM Subject: RE: Job Seeker Tom, Would you be available to come in for an interview this Friday 8/12 at 10 am? Jay ----- His Reply ----- From: Johnson, Tom Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 1:01 PM To: Skills, Jay Subject: Re: Job Seeker I'm presently working full time, so I can only do an interview after work, around 5:30pm or later. Tom Ok, so what I'm seeing now is someone who is attempting to dictate that I (and several other people here who he'd need to meet with in order to be hired) should all stay late after to work in order to interview him at his convenience. Doesn't he have a lunch hour? Personal days? Anyway, the job market being what it is (I have a stack of resumes on my desk at present since there are still a lot of people looking for work), I find this more than a bit curious. So rather than not reply, I decide to just let him know we won't be able to accomodate him and wish him luck. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skills, Jay" To: "'Johnson, Tom'" Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 1:05 PM Subject: RE: Job Seeker Sorry to hear that Tom. Best of luck to you. -----His Reply----- From: Johnson, Tom Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:06 PM To: Skills, Jay Subject: Re: Job Seeker So are you uninterested in hiring me for this position because I cannot interview during working hours? That would be unfortunate. Tom At this point, I should have just deleted this email, but I actually felt a little bad for him that he could feel this way. How could he ever expect to get hired by expecting that potential employers stay at work late just to meet with him, when there are so many other people out there (whose resumes put his to shame mind you) looking for the same position? I know when I was interviewing, I'd accomodate whatever time and place a potential employer wanted from me, if I wanted the job badly enough. So rather than just delete his email, I tried to send him a bit of helpful advice, as I cannot imagine he'd not run into this same issue in the future. Why do I feel the need to be helpful? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skills, Jay" To: "Johnson, Tom" Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: RE: Job Seeker Tom, I believe you have a bit of a misperception in evaluating the reality of the situation. The fact is that you are demonstrating a lack of interest in this position since you cannot come in for an interview while we are actually here to meet with you. I feel compelled to point this out, as I'd imagine you'll encounter similar responses from other potential employers who you are expecting to meet with you outside of normal business hours. I do wish you good luck. -----His Reply----- From: Johnson, Tom Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:06 PM To: Skills, Jay Subject: Re: Job Seeker I'm afraid you'll only find underqualified candidates who are currently unemployed who are able and willing to meet with you in the middle of the day. If you don't have an interest in interviewing qualified candidates, that's no skin off my back, but my interest should have been apparent from the fact that I applied for the position and my willingness to take hours out of my day to meet with you after work. I've never in fact encountered such a reaction from any prospective employer in the past. And I'm quite glad I've discovered this attitude now rather than after taking the effort to interview with you, or God forbid after taking the job, as you're most certainly not the kind of employer I'm interested in working for. If you treat your other employees with this kind of arrogance and condescension, I imagine you'll be looking for new employees again in the near future. I'll be sure to warn off any of my friends. Tom And there you have it. That's what I get for attempting to steer someone who I believe is misguided in the right direction. The sad thing is, this guy assumes I'm some pompous jerk, but in actuality, I'm the most easy going person you could ever work for. You need to leave early? Take a day off? Work from home once in a while? All fine with me, so long as the work gets done. Anyway, I am not going to respond at this point of course, but I would be interested in hearing what any of you might think would be a funny response. For example, Tom, You passed the test. We've been looking for someone with your kind of moxy. You're hired. Jay Why not join the rest of us on the inside and get all of Goofball.com?
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Another reply (0 replies) started by websterinvirginia (10.03.2005 9:29:43 AM EST) I am a software developer - my response to this candidate might read something like the following: Dearest Sir Thomas, We're really trying to understand your point of view on interviewing us at times when we are not actually at work, unfortunately no one here is able to get his head up his ass let alone as deep as yours. We realize that genius like yours might be difficult for average people like us to understand and we can tell that you have a number of traits that any employer would value. For instance, humility: your ability to hide any substantive skills or accomplishments from your resume indicates that you don't care to brag up your exceptionalness; we like that in our employees. Also your questioning of authority is a big plus, we certainly would want someone who can talk us and clients out of unnecessary features or any features that might be inconvenient or beyond your competence to build. Your ability to misassess the character of myself and my staff is also an uncanny ability. In software development it is important to be able to quickly assess a situation and to construe it into a nightmarish quagmire that couldn't be further from the reality; this enables us to generate high and exceptionally profitable cost estimates for coding assignments. We are shocked that a person like you would be unhappy with his present employment. Surely the boobs your work for now simply don't know how to appropriately appreciate you. We are sure that their expectations of competence and respectfulness of employees are way off the mark. We would like to make it up to you by having you pose for a sculptor, so that we might properly honor you with a marble bust which we will encase in glass in our Asshole's Hall of Fame. Your Humble Servant, Jay

P.S.... (0 replies) started by jimbobiglotto (09.27.2005 0:17:18 AM EST) so happens I have an interview tomorrow with the City Manager down here. He's basically a Mayor. and he's glad to meet me after 5pm to accomodate MY schedule. such respect tells me he's a fair and concerned person to work for. again, not to say THIS guy wasn't being presumtuous... If God wanted us men to use napkins, he wouldn't have made our arms hairy!

Sometimes it's just because it's email (0 replies) started by hannes (09.10.2005 9:53:01 PM EST) Sometimes when people write something, they imagine a certain intonation, but the receiver of the email doesn't know that and read it quite differently. Tom could have written something like: "it's really difficult for me to get any time off now, would it be possible to arrange an interview at around 5:30?". I think then you might have responded more favourably, either accomodating him, or explaining that that's difficult for you and asked whether he'd be able to take a day off. Similarly I think, maybe he received your response as being quite snappish, and then - imagining his own email to be meant in a friendly manner - was pissed off. I have this kind of problem a lot, since I work with people in the US, Brazil, Australia, France and Germany, and a lot of emails are exchanged. I've made it a rule for myself to just call the guy when I'm pissed of at an email I'm getting. Often when I talk to that person on the phone they turn out to be quite friendly and helpful. Sometimes of course they turn out the incompetent assholes I imagined them to be. ;-)

From The Information (0 replies) started by cowetaguard (09.08.2005 9:29:04 AM EST) in the emails ..... I wouldn't hire Tom nor would I work for Jay ..... how could a decision made on such limited information be a good one? I made my decision on that same informatin; so, it must be a bad one????

been on both sides... (0 replies) started by jimbobiglotto (09.02.2005 11:53:24 PM EST) after owning a business for 12 years, I am currently unemployed. Luckily, I AM free in the daytime to interview for jobs. However, as a former boss, I wouldn't appreciate being lied to when someone "calls in sick" to interview for a job elsewhere. after a few interviews, that employer is no longer a good reference, as you've now become a problem with attendance. I do think Tom was sincere and polite asking for an after-hours interview. (I know, call me crazy.) What Jay calls "Lack of interest" in the postition, I feel is actually admirable. The candidate is demonstrating a loyalty to a job that he even feels inclined to LEAVE. who wouldn't want an employee like that? as a business owner, I'd have met the guy after hours. I was never so pompous to feel I'm "above coming in" after hours to find good people. Then again, if I lived far from the job or something, that would be a hassle. (I'm waffling more than John Kerry, I know!) HOWEVER, I also agree that Tom was completely off the wall with his INSANE response to Jay's honest answer of why the guy blew his chances. Jay WAS doing him a big favor telling him how some employers won't appreciate that. oh... but Jay? the word is spelled, "mox-i-e" ... but I'm sure TOM would have told you that had you wrote it! ; ) don't listen to me, I lost money for 12 years in business and now I HAVE no business. I can just envy yours! Just moved to the south and I can feel every other tooth getting loose already!

He sure has self confidence, that's for sure (0 replies) started by obiwan (08.25.2005 3:28:24 PM EST) I don't know, perhaps he's the best guy for the technical job, but his first reply already showed a person that doesn't know what working with, and for, others means. We say in Spain "charity opens your door to pest" You tried to give him a good advice and what you got was an intolerably rude answer. He probably wanks way too much too. Incidentally, we have been looking for a software developer for two months and your description of candidates couldn't be any more accurate. Good luck Jay. ~Obiwan~

From an Insider (0 replies) started by wittycmbck (08.19.2005 10:41:47 AM EST) Im a recruiting manager at an IT consulting firm here in so cali and ive been doing this for seven years. I cant tell you how many odd odd odd responses i have recieved from managers and cowworkers regarding interviews. My policy parallels yours in that I would have not sent him anything back ...hell hath no fury like a darwinian award candidate scorned eh. For arguments sake lets say we did respond to the only living brain donor i would say. Tom, Since i have your work email ill be interviewing your superior to garner and embrace the techniques on proper leadership that he is surely to have to offer. Lol that story cracked me up think ill post it in the office. Worst EVER interview was for a JDE Consultant ...comes in sweating balls and mumbling to himself. The manager said she was "scared". Now ive had alot of feedback in my day but scared?!?! thanks for the laughs, Lisa

Very Interesting J.... (0 replies) started by misspk (08.18.2005 8:29:57 AM EST) I too am in management and hire on a regular basis. Fortunately I've had luck in this area, and have an incredible team working for me - but I can see how this could easily grate on those in this position. I've heard horror stories similar to yours, believe me. I would hope a compromise would be in order, seeing he does have a valid point - but you were willing to meet with him during lunch or make other arragements. He on the other hand had a bit of insolence for you, a potential authority figure, and regardless of his talent and experience, you're quite fortunate to weed him out early. Tom, Best wishes to you. I'm certain that at some point and to some degree in time we will meet again. It may be for another position, here or at another company....either way, this demonstrates the old adage "never burn your bridges", because I too have many friends. J *wink,giggle,blush*

Huh? (0 replies) started by musclebound (08.12.2005 4:01:40 PM EST) Hell I'd set up the interview for 6:00 pm at a gay bar, and not show up.

My response (1 reply)   started by thecritic (08.10.2005 0:48:58 AM EST) Tom, We're not recruiting you, if we were we'd gladly meet you at your convenience, perhaps dinner and drinks. Fact is you applied for the position along with a lot of other people. We can't meet everyone who applies for a job at their convenience, just how long do you think our days are? If you have a full time job and are applying for work then you must be un-happy where you are. My question is do you want the job or are you just using us to get a raise? I also find it odd that you have friends to warn off. Either way, while you're warning off, piss off. Love, Mom

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